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29* year old Akron native. Recently completed my MBA with a concentration in Sustainability. Passionate about innovative renewable energy technology and endurance sports.
August 3rd, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Girl perhaps the reason is that your actual marathon pace technically should be much faster than what you are targetting. You are in fantastic shape and could easily go under that 8:24/3:40 pace! You are going to rock Towpath!
August 3rd, 2008 at 7:30 pm
solar, I am not expert but I will paraphrase Pfitzenger in “Advanced Marathoning”. He says that your long runs (17 miles or more) should be no faster than 10% off your target marathon pace. He explains the supporting physiology in Chapter 2. Basically, running your long training runs too fast forces your body into recover mode. But, I don’t think you are actually running your long runs too fast. I agree with Daisy that you need to reevaluate your target pace. If you are running comfortably (able to hold a conversation) at an 8:22 pace for your long run, it’s possible that you’ve set your target pace too slow.
August 3rd, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Thanks Amie!
August 4th, 2008 at 8:15 am
first of all amie - that is awesome! you are going to qualify no problem! I wish I knew the answer to your question though. Following the “FIRST” program - i’m having the opposite problem as you. I went and ran my 20 at a comfortable pace - ignoring the watch - at a pace where i could still chat - and I was at a 9:09 pace - exactly 45 seconds slower than planned marathon pace. My question - is how the heck does that translate into running 26.2 at 8:24??? Aren’t you better off being able to run your 20 milers at that fast of a pace?
August 4th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Here’s the thing. I think the schedules are using your fitness level as opposed to your goal pace, assuming that everyone wants to run the fastest possible marathn they can run. If you are in say 20:15-20:30 5k shape, then your marathon pace isn’t 8:24. It’s more like 7:40 (3:20 marathon). Fitness level corresponds approximately to the best race you could run under the conditions. That means that running your 8:10-8:40 pace is spot on for marathon training. It’s perfectly reasonable for you to not have the goal of running a 3:40 when your shorter races indicate you could run a 3:20 with optimal training and a great day if you just want to qualify for Boston (I say that as if that’s no bog deal!) I would do your long runs at a comfortable pace. If 8:20 is comfortable. Great! Roll with it. It’ll feel even easier on race day!
So many people make the mistake of training to their goal pace, rather than their fitness level. It cuts both ways: either causing them to run too fast in training or too slow for the training to really do it’s job. Go here: http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm and enter in your most recent races to get an idea of what paces you should run for 5k pace, 10k pace, marathon pace, etc. in your First workouts.
As for Bridget’s question: “Aren’t you better off being able to run your 20 milers at that fast of a pace?” The answer is heck no! Maybe if you’re just trying to finish a marathon, but no competetive marathoner runs an entire long run at race pace. During my last training cycle, for the most part my long runs were about 45-60 seconds over goal time with just the last few miles on pace. Marathon training is like a puzzle. Each run is a piece to create the whole thing. Each run serves a distinct purpose. Long runs are time on your feet. They get you used to running for a long time. They get you burning fat and teach your body to use fuel and water efficiently. Long intervals with very short recoveries build strength and teach you to run hard when tired. Tempo runs extend your lactate threshold and allow you to run at your maximum longer. They also teach you how to stay focused running fast over a long period of time with no break. Easy runs build your aerobic capacity and recovery runs bring blood to your tired legs and help repair them. All these runs together add up to the ability to run at pace on race day.
Sorry to ramble on! I miss this stuff
August 4th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Gah! Typo city!
“Fitness level corresponds approximately to the best race you could run under the conditions. ” Should say …the best race you could run under ideal conditions.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
Very well explained salty. Use that mcmilluin to estimate based on a good half. not a crazy one like youngstown. and if you don’t have a good half use a 10k. there are plenty of halfs coming up to see what you can do.
As for towpath? there are better ones. akron is tough but much more fun. detroit is good, columbus is supposed to be good.
August 5th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Amie girl 3:40 at Towpath will be cake walk for you as long as your nutrition, hydration, and stomach hold up. You have had a great year so far and your running is going so well! Run your long runs at conversational pace and you will be good to go come time for Towpath! Listen to Salty, she knows her shit!
August 5th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
You guys rock. Thanks for all of the advice. I think I know what I need to do now - I was on the right track, I just didn’t know it.
August 7th, 2008 at 8:17 am
fixed my goggle issues for friday ! new strap…how simple !